Withdraw their hands from eating bread, and would fix themselves to eat fruit and have drinks, and everything they ate and drank at that time, whether it was brought as part of the meal, or not, they would recite a berachah before and after, as hamotzi and birchas hamazon only exempts food eaten as part of the main meal. The Shulchan Aruch concludes: This ruling is not common in our times, as we are not accustomed to withdrawing our hands from the bread until after birchas hamazon.
It is clear from the Biur Halachah (d.h she’ein) that there is a machlokes how to understand the Shulchan Aruch. According to the Levush, the intention of the Shulchan Aruch is the same as the opinion of the Tur, that only at ordinary meals do we not remove ourselves from the bread, however, at large meals we are accustomed to withdraw our hands from the bread, and we do not intend to eat the bread even if slices are still on the table.
On the other hand, according to the opinion of the Bach (sif 2); Magen Avraham (s.k. 7); Elyah Rabbah (s.k. 10); and Chayei Adam, the intention of the Shulchan Aruch is that nowadays we always intend to eat from the bread. The Chayei Adam adds that so is the minhag. Nonetheless, if the table is removed, it is clear from the Magen Avraham cited in the Biur Halachah, that one is obligated to make a berachah.
The Biur Halachah explains that the machlokes haposkim is dependent on a machlokes rishonim. According to the Kol-Bo (17b); Rashba (41b); and Talmiday Rabbeinu Yonah (29b) it all depends on the “removal of the table”, in those days they would remove the table and it would look like a separate meal, however, nowadays that we don’t remove the table, our mind is constantly upon the bread, therefore, even by large meals it is considered a continuation.
However, Rabbeinu Chananel cited in the Ohr Zaruah; the Aruch; Rambam and other rishonim don’t mention the “removal of the table”, and they learn it is to do with “withdrawing the hands from bread”, therefore, they hold that by big meals when the bread is removed then it is possible to say people have taken their minds off the original berachah, and they are required to make a new berachah.
Minhag Sephard
The Birkay Yosef (177 ois 2) brings in the name of the Maharash Elgazi that in Egypt at the end of a meal they remove the table, and they bring another table laden with fruit. On this table they place a small piece of bread with salt, and one must recite on the fruit that he eats a berachah achronah.
The Kaf HaChaim (177 s.k. 14) argues and says that from the simple reading of the Shulchan Aruch it seems that in the times of the Gemara they had a different mode of conduct to today. In the times of the Gemara, after they finished with their bread, they would no longer eat from it, therefore, the fruit that they ate required a separate berachah achronah. Today, however, things are different, and we don’t finish with bread until the very end, and if bread is brought later on in the meal, it is still normal to eat it, therefore, no berachah achronah should be made on the fruit, even if the original table is taken away, and a new one with fruit is brought in.
The Kaf HaChaim adds: Since there is a machlokes haposkim about this, one shouldn’t make a berachah achronah on the fruit, especially as bedieved birchas hamazon exempts the fruit from a berachah achronah. Nonetheless, lechatchilah one should keep bread with him, and have clear intention that he isn’t taking his mind off the bread until after birchas hamazon.
According to the Ben Ish Chai (Year 1, Naso, sif 10) if one removes his hands from eating bread, he must make a berachah on all food that is subsequently brought, even if it is למזון ולשובע – food that satisfies. Therefore, the minhag is to leave some bread on the table until birchas hamazon to serve as a heker (sign) that one hasn’t taken his mind off the bread. The Ben Ish Chai adds: One who has yiras shomayim won’t suffice with this, and he will make sure to eat a little bit of bread before washing mayim achronim, and he will also eat some bread when the table with fruit is brought out. He adds, that it is a good minhag to serve at a Shabbos meal before birchas hamazon, a little bit of fish with bread.
Biur Halachah and Chazon Ish
The Biur Halachah writes that from the simple reading of the Tur and Shulchan Aruch it seems that if the table is removed, all the foods that come after the meal require a berachah, even if they are foods that are normally served as part of a meal, such as porridge.
The Biur Halachah writes: “In my opinion, this needs looking into, as the Shulchan Aruch that rules that there is no distinction between items that come because of the meal and items that do not come because of the meal, that is, only according to Tosfos, the Rosh and the Rambam, however, many Rishonim argue, as is clear in the Rashba, and in the Eshkol in the name of Rav Hai Gaon, and learn that only fruit requires a berachah when the table is removed, however, porridge, meat and fish which come after the table is removed don’t require a new berachah before or after, since they themselves are part of the main part of the meal that comes to satisfy.”
The conclusion of the Biur Halachah is that it depends on the type of food. If, after the meal, one eats fruits then one needs to make a berachah as they are not the main part of the meal, and even meat and fish that come as a condiment require a berachah since one took his mind off eating bread. However, if one eats porridge after the meal, there are Rishonim that hold that it doesn’t require a berachah before or after, since it is something that comes as part of the meal, and the rule is that when in doubt regarding berachos we are lenient. According to some achronim (208:17) it is clear that if one recites birchas hamazon on porridge he is yoitza, therefore, one should have the porridge in mind when reciting birchas hamazon.
The Chazon Ish (siman 27, s.k. 4) asks on the Biur Halachah as the Rishonim equate meat and fish with porridge, and if porridge doesn’t require separate berachos, then the same should be with all items that are normally eaten as part of a meal.
Another point that comes out from the Chazon Ish (27 s.k. 2) is that the entire machlokes between Tosfos and the Rosh on one side, and the Rashba on the other, is if one makes a kevius to eat fruit, however, if the tables are removed and one doesn’t make a kevius, but simply eats in a temporary manner then there is no need for a new berachah. The Megillas Sefer (26, ois 10) is medayek this from the Shulchan Aruch which stresses, היו קובעין עצמם לאכול פירות – they made a kevius to eat fruit, which sounds like if it is not a kevius, there is no need for a new berachah, even if the table has been removed.
Removing the Tables Before Dancing
What emerges from the Biur Halachah is, that even in our times when we don’t take our minds off the bread until the end of the meal, that only helps when the table remains in front of us, but when the table is removed, certainly according to all opinions it is considered as if the bread has been removed and our minds have been taken off it.
In light of the above, the poskim of our time discuss whether at weddings where the tables are cleared away with everything on them, if one is required to recite a berachah rishonah and berachah achronah when eating food served at the bar after the tables have been cleared, they discuss both food which is normal to serve as part of a meal (bourakes, cholent, drinks), and desserts that are traditionally served at the end of the meal (fruit, compote, ice cream).
Or can we perhaps say that it is not considered “that the tables have been removed” since food remains on the top table, and there is lots of food by the bar and tables for sitting down on there as well. And even if one did stop eating, he is still considered to be in the middle of the meal – especially as they have not yet served dessert and the dessert is served by the bar next to the other food, and it is normal to continue to eat and drink by the bar?
Another argument that could be made is, that the entire reason for folding the tables is only to make room for dancing, because there is not enough room in the hall to dance when there are tables left out for everyone, and this isn’t considered taking one’s mind off the meal. Consequently, food which is normal to eat as part of the meal is still exempt with hamotzi recited at the beginning, and all the food eaten is exempt with birchas hamazon at the end.
Poskim that Require a New Berachah
The Shu”t Shevet HaLevi (1:205, he’oras on siman 177) is in doubt about the above, as there is both “removal of the table” and a hesech hada’as [removal of the mind] from eating bread, and he leans towards requiring a new berachah both before and after.
According to R’ Elyashiv, zt”l (Vezois HaBerachah, pages 78-79), it is considered a hesech hada’as and one must recite a berachah before and after eating and drinking (he says to ignore the fact that there is top table and a bar).
R’ Karp shlita (Halichos Yom BeYom, Vol. 1, Perek 13, din 24) writes that desserts served after the removal of the bread by chasunah’s, require a berachah before and after, as bread is not served with them, and this is a new meal being served at the bar. However, when eating kugel and mezonos one can rely on birchas hamazon which exempts items that require al hamichya.
Poskim that Don’t Require a New Berachah
On the other hand, R’ Shlomah Zalman zt”l (Halichos Shlomah, Pesach, Perek 9, Orchos Halachah 366) and R’ Chaim Pinchos Scheinberg zt”l (Vezois HaBerachah pg. 78-79, Shaarei HaBerachah, Perek 8, he’orah 16) both rule that moving the tables for the purpose of dancing is not considered “a removal of the table” regarding Hilchos Berachos, because the central table for the chosson and his important guests remains in place, and the entire meal is prepared in honor of those dining at that table.
Furthermore, the clearing of the tables is not for the purpose of ending the meal, it is simply to make more room for dancing, and people haven’t taken their minds off eating. Removal of the tables and hesech hada’as of itself is not a reason to require new berachos, it is simply a way of showing that the meal is over, however, by a chasunah the meal is continuing, therefore, there is no need to recite new berachos, as long as one hasn’t finished eating.
The VeZois HaBerachah brings a solution to avoid all doubts, which is that one should keep with him some bread even less than a kezayis until the end of the meal, and then it is certain that one hasn’t taken his mind away from eating bread.
R’ Nissim Karelitz zt”l (Chut Shoni, Berachos pg. 171) also holds that there is no need to make a new berachah, as the main table is still in place, and likewise the food in the bar is available for everyone present.
The Emek Teshuvah (Shu”t 6:27) also writes that one doesn’t need to make a berachah when drinking during the dancing, as the table for the mechutonim [in-laws] remains for birchas hamazon and shevah berachos, and it is like a case of הניח מקצת חברים – some people are still in the original place. Additionally, all the guests are drawn after the top table as the top table is the focus of the chasunah seudah.
The Megillas Sefer (Berachos, siman 26 ois 10) answers up the minhag ha’oilam not to make new berachos, based on the Chazon Ish (mentioned above) who says that it is not considered a new meal as people don’t set themselves up (make a new kevius) for another meal of eating fruits and snacks, rather, they continue to eat while standing in a temporary manner, therefore, it is considered a continuation of the original seudah.
R' Ben Tzion Abba Shaul zt”l (Shu”t Ohr LeTzion, Vol. 2, siman 12, ois 13) differentiates between fruit which he says requires a berachah before and after, and mezonos which doesn’t, and he says that drinks certainly don’t require a berachah, as one doesn’t have a hesech hada’as as he knows he will get thirsty during dancing.
According to R’ Tzvi Weber shlita (Shiurei Berachos) if only the chosson’s table remains, and the guests don’t sit there, then it can’t be considered their table, and it is considered that the “tables have been removed” and they need to make new berachos. However, since generally speaking at the bar there are foods which also come to satisfy, one may continue eating by the bar, and even for foods that don’t come to satisfy, there is no need to make a special berachah achronah as they are considered part of the meal, and one only needs to recite a berachah rishonah. However, if by the bar there is only fruit and desserts, then it is considered that the original meal has come to an end, and one must make a separate berachah before and after. Similarly, if at the time of removing the tables, food hadn’t yet been brought to the bar, then it would be considered a siluk, ending to the meal, and one would be obligated to make a new berachah rishonah and achronah.
Drinks In the Middle of Dancing
It is common that during the dancing, one becomes thirsty for a drink, and he drinks to satisfy his thirst due to the dancing and not because he is thirsty because of the eating. The question is, does this require a separate berachah, as it is not coming because of the meal, or do we say that there is no need for a new berachah, since one is also thirsty from the food.
It’s important to emphasize, that if we assume in the previous question that the removal of the tables is an interruption, then certainly a new berachah is required, and the entire question only starts assuming that the removal of the tables doesn’t create an interruption, and then the question is, if what one drinks during dancing is considered to be part of the meal, or do we say that since it is not coming because of the food, but rather it is coming because of the dancing, it is separate and requires a new berachah?
שותה מים לצמאו - Drinking Water to Quench One's Thirst
It is clear from the Gemara in Berachos (42a) that if one makes a berachah on wine before the meal, it doesn’t exempt wine that is consumed after the meal, unless one was קבע סעודתו על היין – fixed his meal to be based on wine.
The Beis Yosef (174) brings from the Ohel Mo’ed, and is medayek this from the Rashba as well, that if one is thirsty during a meal due to other reasons, and not because of the eating, then one should recite a berachah. And this is what it means “wine after the meal”, if after the meal one talks a lot, and he became thirsty, and then one drinks because of this and not because of the food, then the drink requires a new berachah. However, if one is thirsty because of the food itself, then even if a long time has passed since the end of eating, one does not recite a berachah when drinking.
According to the above, seemingly the halachah would be that if one dances at a wedding and he drinks water in order to quench his thirst due to the dancing and sweating from the dancing, one would need to recite a berachah, like the case of one who needs a drink due to conversation.
However, according to R’ Chaim Pinchos Scheinberg zt”l (Vezois HaBerachah pg. 278 – 279) and R‘ Tzvi Weber (Shiurei Berachos) one does not need to recite a berachah when drinking in the middle of dancing, because one is thirsty also because of the food that preceded it, and it is considered to be coming as part of the meal.
The Sha’arei Berachah (Perek 8, he’orah 48) writes: It seems to me that the minhag ha’oilam is not to make a berachah in such a case, and although one is thirsty due to the dancing, from the fact that Shulchan Aruch and Mishnah Berurah make no mention of the Ohel Mo’ed, it seems that we consider it that one is thirsty because of the meal, and it is normal to be thirsty due to the meal even without dancing. Therefore, even if one is thirsty because of dancing, we look at it as part of the meal and he is exempt from reciting a berachah. Practically, tzorich iyun. If, one is certain that he isn’t thirsty due to the meal, and it is clearly because of the dancing, there is room to allow him to recite a berachah.
R’ Ben Zion Abba Shaul (Shu”t Ohr LeTzion, Vol. 2, siman 12, ois 13) mentions an additional reason for why there is no need to recite a new berachah, which is that a person hasn’t taken his mind off the original drinking.
It’s noteworthy that the Shulchan Aruch HaRav (174:2) writes in regard to drinks that are consumed as part of a meal, that even if they are remotely connected to the meal, they are considered toful [secondary] to the meal, and the berachah made on bread exempts them from a berachah.
The Megillas Sefer (Berachos, siman 26, ois 8) suggests another reason for not reciting a berachah on drinks that are consumed during dancing, which is that we see from the Taz (168:10) that we don’t go after the da’as [intention] of the person drinking, rather, we look at what most people normally do, and since most people drink water because of thirst caused by the food, one does not recite a berachah over them in any way, even if he is only drinking it due to thirst because of dancing.
The Otzar HaTeshuvos (siman 123) concludes, that even if one is only thirsty due to the dancing, he shouldn’t recite a berachah. Nonetheless, it is fitting to be yoitza with another person’s berachah, or one should recite shehakol over another food item and the water will be exempt.
Summary
- Part of the meal – Food items that are normal to be eaten as part of a meal such as meat and fish, don’t require any berachos, and are exempt with the berachos recited on the bread. Food items that don’t normally come as part of a seudah, but are brought in the middle of the meal, such as fruit, require a berachah beforehand, but don’t require their own berachah achronah.
- After the meal – Food items that are brought after the meal, whether they are normally eaten as a condiment, or they are eaten as dessert, they require a berachah both before and after. Some say, that if they come למזון ושובע – to satisfy, then they are considered part of the meal, and don’t require a berachah.
- Practically – According to the Biur Halachah, on food such as porridge there is no need for a berachah, even if the bread has been removed. According to the Chazon Ish there is no difference between porridge and other foods that are eaten in order to become satisfied, and as long as one hasn’t made a kevius to eat fruit, there is no need to recite new berachos.
- Removal of the bread – Nowadays, even after the meal we don’t make new berachos, as we don’t remove our hands from the bread. By big meals however, there is a machlokes haposkim, if we are considered to have removed our hands from the bread. If the tables have been removed (השולחן את סילק), then according to all opinions new berachos are required.
- Folding tables to make space for dancing – At chasunah’s where the tables are folded away before birchas hamazon, according to most poskim it is not considered עקירת השולחן – that the tables have been removed, and there is no need for new berachos. Some say it is considered עקירת השולחן, and new berachos are required. And some poskim differentiate between different types of food, as we explained. A practical eitzah is to keep some bread in your pocket, and then according to all opinions there is no problem of hesech hada’as.
- Drinks – If one is thirsty due to the dancing, the drink is still considered part of the meal and there is no need for a new berachah.
(This write-up was based on gilyon Oimek HaPeshat, gilyon 435)
