Levels of Hiddur Regarding When to Recite Selichos
למודי משה | September 11, 2025
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Levels of Hiddur Regarding When to Recite Selichos

למודי משה | December 10, 2025

Question: HaRav Meir the Masmid is an avreich who toils in Torah day and night, and if he gets up early to say selichos, or if he goes to bed later, he will be very tired and it will affect his learning the next day. Meir wants to know what the various levels of hiddur are regarding when to recite selichos, and when it would be best for him to recite selichos?

Answer: There are many different levels:

Early in the Morning (אîמוíת): The best time is early in the morning like it says in Shulchan Aruch: "The custom is to wake up early to recite selichos and special supplications." This is also the lashon of the Rambam (Hilchos Teshuvah 3:5): "The custom was that everyone got up whilst it was still night to daven." Rav Amram Gaon writes to get up before amud hashachar. Similarly, the Siddur Rashi (siman 139) and Machzor Vitri (Vol. 1, siman 313) also write that one should get up before amud hashachar. The Rema (602:1) writes: "The viduy of selichos should also be before amud hashachar." The Sha’ar Hakavanos writes that this was also the minhag of the Arizal.

Midnight: In later generations the minhag of reciting selichos at midnight started to take off. This minhag is brought in the Sefer HaMussar of the Mahari Katz. In the Igros of the Degel Machneh Ephraim it is brought that this was the minhag of the Baal Shem Tov. R’ Moshe Feinstein (Igros Moshe, Vol. 2, siman 105) explains this minhag: According to kabbalah from midnight and on it is considered a time of eis ratzon [time of mercy], similar to that of early in the morning.

Bitul Torah

The Mateh Ephraim (581:11) writes: "One shouldn’t take himself away from the tzibbur during selichos, and even one who loves learning Torah and finds it difficult to take himself away from learning, must participate in selichos and join in together with the tzibbur who are pouring their hearts out to our merciful father in heaven, who loves giving people life."

The Rema in Hilchos Tefillah (90:18) also writes, that one who busies himself all day with Torah, should refrain from learning in shul at a time when the tzibbur are reciting selichos. Accordingly, the Mishnah Berurah (Hilchos Yom Kippur 619:16) writes, that a talmid chocham shouldn’t learn at a time when he should be saying selichos and he must participate with the tzibbur.

R’ Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld also writes in his Shu”t Salmas Chaim (203) that even a rebbe must wake up early to recite selichos, even if by doing so he will be tired, and it may cause bitul Torah during the day.

[The luach "Itim Lebinah" brings in the name of R’ Elyashiv that Ashrei must also only be recited after midnight. On the other hand, R’ Shlomah Zalman Auerbach (Halichos Shlomah, Perek 1) argues and holds that Ashrei and Kaddish can even be recited before midnight, and only the Yud Gimmel Middos need to be at night.]

[The Mateh Ephraim (581:19) writes, that even though we don’t say tachanun at night, if during selichos one gets to the point of saying tachanun and it is still night, since day is nearby one should say it. However, ideally one should drag out selichos to ensure that he doesn’t get to tachanun until daytime. From the above, it would seem that if one says selichos at midnight, since day is not nearby, tachanun shouldn’t be said. However, the Mishnah Berurah (131:3) cites the Elyah Rabbah and Magen Avraham who are lenient with regards to saying tachanun from chatzos and on.]

In the Morning Before Shacharis: The minhag in yeshivos is to recite selichos an hour, or half an hour before the regular time of Shacharis. Support for this can be found in Minhagei Vormiza (pg. 88) where it says: "Although they would come to shul early in the morning, selichos would only be recited once it started to get light."

Midday: In many Sephardi kehillos they have minyonim for selichos with lots of people at midday. The Yalkut Yosef (Hilchos Rosh Hashanah pg. 49) praises this minhag, and he writes: "This is good for avreichim who toil in Torah and getting up early or going to sleep late causes them to be tired, and gives them headaches. Now, they can partake in these minyonim and recite selichos in the afternoon."

At Night Before Chatzos: In many chasidisha kehillos they have the minhag to recite selichos even before midnight. This is the minhag in Rachmastrivka, Gur and Karlin. This is based on the Karmana who said that after the first ashmorah [watch] of the night, it is already considered an eis ratzon.

However, see the Sha’arei Teshuva (581:1) who writes in the name of the Maharam Zechusa that it is forbidden to recite Yud Gimmel Middos before chatzos, as they may only be said at a time of eis ratzon.

R’ Moshe Feinstein (Nesivos Halachah pg. 182, Igros Moshe 2:105) said, that lechatchilah one shouldn’t do this, however, if there is no other option then one may recite selichos then. However, he adds: "Even then, it should be made known, that it is due to pressing circumstances, in order to avoid it being done in the future."

R’ Shlomah Zalman Auerbach zt”l held, that strictly speaking it is incorrect to recite selichos before midnight, however, we shouldn’t protest against those who do so based on a minhag of their fathers.

Practically: R’ Elyashiv zt”l addresses the shailah we opened with. He writes that lechatchilah it is best to get up early (אîמíÕת) as that is the best time. If one finds this difficult, it is better to recite selichos at midnight then it is to recite it before Shacharis if not done by אîמíÕת (Nesivos Halachah pg. 205). However, for one who lack of sleep causes bitul Torah he can be lenient and daven selichos in the morning before Shacharis, even if it is not at אîמíÕת.

[See Nesivos Halachah (pg. 142) where they bring from R’ Elyashiv that if one wakes up late, and reciting selichos before Shacharis will cause him to miss the zeman krias shema of the Magen Avraham, or he will have to skip parts of Pesukei Dezimra, it is best to recite selichos after davening].

The Yalkut Yosef (Hilchos Rosh Hashanah pg. 48, 49) brings that although the Chida (Birkay Yosef 581:6) writes: "During these days it is better to increase in davening selichos and tachanun with the tzibbur than it is to learn Torah", the Chida is talking about people who anyway wake up early to learn, and for such people the Chida is saying, they should leave their learning, and go and recite selichos with the tzibbur. However, regarding people who don’t normally get up early, and if they got up early they will have headaches and be tired the entire day, and fall asleep during learning, such people don’t need to get up early for selichos.

Question: HaRav Meir the Masmid is an avreich who toils in Torah day and night, and if he gets up early to say selichos, or if he goes to bed later, he will be very tired and it will affect his learning the next day. Meir wants to know what the various levels of hiddur are regarding when to recite selichos, and when it would be best for him to recite selichos?

Answer: There are many different levels:

Early in the Morning (אîמוíת): The best time is early in the morning like it says in Shulchan Aruch: "The custom is to wake up early to recite selichos and special supplications." This is also the lashon of the Rambam (Hilchos Teshuvah 3:5): "The custom was that everyone got up whilst it was still night to daven." Rav Amram Gaon writes to get up before amud hashachar. Similarly, the Siddur Rashi (siman 139) and Machzor Vitri (Vol. 1, siman 313) also write that one should get up before amud hashachar. The Rema (602:1) writes: "The viduy of selichos should also be before amud hashachar." The Sha’ar Hakavanos writes that this was also the minhag of the Arizal.

Midnight: In later generations the minhag of reciting selichos at midnight started to take off. This minhag is brought in the Sefer HaMussar of the Mahari Katz. In the Igros of the Degel Machneh Ephraim it is brought that this was the minhag of the Baal Shem Tov. R’ Moshe Feinstein (Igros Moshe, Vol. 2, siman 105) explains this minhag: According to kabbalah from midnight and on it is considered a time of eis ratzon [time of mercy], similar to that of early in the morning.

Bitul Torah

The Mateh Ephraim (581:11) writes: "One shouldn’t take himself away from the tzibbur during selichos, and even one who loves learning Torah and finds it difficult to take himself away from learning, must participate in selichos and join in together with the tzibbur who are pouring their hearts out to our merciful father in heaven, who loves giving people life."

The Rema in Hilchos Tefillah (90:18) also writes, that one who busies himself all day with Torah, should refrain from learning in shul at a time when the tzibbur are reciting selichos. Accordingly, the Mishnah Berurah (Hilchos Yom Kippur 619:16) writes, that a talmid chocham shouldn’t learn at a time when he should be saying selichos and he must participate with the tzibbur.

R’ Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld also writes in his Shu”t Salmas Chaim (203) that even a rebbe must wake up early to recite selichos, even if by doing so he will be tired, and it may cause bitul Torah during the day.

[The luach "Itim Lebinah" brings in the name of R’ Elyashiv that Ashrei must also only be recited after midnight. On the other hand, R’ Shlomah Zalman Auerbach (Halichos Shlomah, Perek 1) argues and holds that Ashrei and Kaddish can even be recited before midnight, and only the Yud Gimmel Middos need to be at night.]

[The Mateh Ephraim (581:19) writes, that even though we don’t say tachanun at night, if during selichos one gets to the point of saying tachanun and it is still night, since day is nearby one should say it. However, ideally one should drag out selichos to ensure that he doesn’t get to tachanun until daytime. From the above, it would seem that if one says selichos at midnight, since day is not nearby, tachanun shouldn’t be said. However, the Mishnah Berurah (131:3) cites the Elyah Rabbah and Magen Avraham who are lenient with regards to saying tachanun from chatzos and on.]

In the Morning Before Shacharis: The minhag in yeshivos is to recite selichos an hour, or half an hour before the regular time of Shacharis. Support for this can be found in Minhagei Vormiza (pg. 88) where it says: "Although they would come to shul early in the morning, selichos would only be recited once it started to get light."

Midday: In many Sephardi kehillos they have minyonim for selichos with lots of people at midday. The Yalkut Yosef (Hilchos Rosh Hashanah pg. 49) praises this minhag, and he writes: "This is good for avreichim who toil in Torah and getting up early or going to sleep late causes them to be tired, and gives them headaches. Now, they can partake in these minyonim and recite selichos in the afternoon."

At Night Before Chatzos: In many chasidisha kehillos they have the minhag to recite selichos even before midnight. This is the minhag in Rachmastrivka, Gur and Karlin. This is based on the Karmana who said that after the first ashmorah [watch] of the night, it is already considered an eis ratzon.

However, see the Sha’arei Teshuva (581:1) who writes in the name of the Maharam Zechusa that it is forbidden to recite Yud Gimmel Middos before chatzos, as they may only be said at a time of eis ratzon.

R’ Moshe Feinstein (Nesivos Halachah pg. 182, Igros Moshe 2:105) said, that lechatchilah one shouldn’t do this, however, if there is no other option then one may recite selichos then. However, he adds: "Even then, it should be made known, that it is due to pressing circumstances, in order to avoid it being done in the future."

R’ Shlomah Zalman Auerbach zt”l held, that strictly speaking it is incorrect to recite selichos before midnight, however, we shouldn’t protest against those who do so based on a minhag of their fathers.

Practically: R’ Elyashiv zt”l addresses the shailah we opened with. He writes that lechatchilah it is best to get up early (אîמíÕת) as that is the best time. If one finds this difficult, it is better to recite selichos at midnight then it is to recite it before Shacharis if not done by אîמíÕת (Nesivos Halachah pg. 205). However, for one who lack of sleep causes bitul Torah he can be lenient and daven selichos in the morning before Shacharis, even if it is not at אîמíÕת.

[See Nesivos Halachah (pg. 142) where they bring from R’ Elyashiv that if one wakes up late, and reciting selichos before Shacharis will cause him to miss the zeman krias shema of the Magen Avraham, or he will have to skip parts of Pesukei Dezimra, it is best to recite selichos after davening].

The Yalkut Yosef (Hilchos Rosh Hashanah pg. 48, 49) brings that although the Chida (Birkay Yosef 581:6) writes: "During these days it is better to increase in davening selichos and tachanun with the tzibbur than it is to learn Torah", the Chida is talking about people who anyway wake up early to learn, and for such people the Chida is saying, they should leave their learning, and go and recite selichos with the tzibbur. However, regarding people who don’t normally get up early, and if they got up early they will have headaches and be tired the entire day, and fall asleep during learning, such people don’t need to get up early for selichos.

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